S3 Bonus 04: Demystifying the Pitching Process

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[00:00:00] Yulia: Welcome to the Genius Womxn podcast. I'm your host, Yulia, Denisyuk, an award-winning travel photographer and writer with work in some incredible publications like National Geographic farm magazine and more. And this year you see my name in places like Conde Nast Traveler. I'm on a mission to help other women who wants to grow their trouble, storytelling, careers, go after their dreams while feeling supported, worthy, and bold. If you're ready to ditch your fear and doubts to the side, step into your brilliance and take action on your dreams. You're in the right place. Let's go. 

[00:00:40] Yulia: Hi everyone. This month, we are continuing our little hiatus in preparation for our upcoming season four of the podcast. And in the meantime, we're sharing the series of bonus episodes with you. In today's bonus episode, I'm bringing you a conversation we had in the circle with our circle members, Vanessa Doosan, and Sam Flanagan.

[00:00:39] Hey everyone. All throughout September, we're sharing bonus episodes with you. As we're taking a little break here in preparation for season four of our. In this bonus episode, I'm sharing with you a conversation we had in the circle with our circle members, Vanessa Doosan, and Ashley Brooks. Both of them have been published since starting with us in the circle.

[00:01:03] This conversation is all about pitching and the mystifying parts of this often nerve wracking process enrollments of the circle is currently closed. As we're getting ready for our one year anniversary this October, if you want to know, when we opened the doors back up, visit geniuswomxn.co/circlewaitlist to get on the list.

[00:01:26] That's geniuswomxn.co/circlewaitlist one word. Okay. Let's dive into our conversation with Vanessa and Sam. 

[00:01:37] Yulia: I know that last week was a tough week for many of them.

[00:01:41] Maybe the solar, I mean, lunar eclipse had something to do with it, but it seemed like lots of, sort of, valleys instead of peaks. 

[00:01:49] Yulia: um, I mean, 

[00:01:51] Vanessa: I would be more just the, I got several. Rejections, but I'm not, it's, it wasn't really bringing me down too much. It's more like, ah, you know, that I find something, I guess I'm more intriguing or different and yeah.

[00:02:05] I find it kind of motivates me to try a little harder. Came too easily then that's the 

[00:02:10]Yulia: point. Yeah.

[00:02:11] Yeah. And gosh, I just, really love your evolution and how you're dealing with rejections. And I talked about this, uh, I think on our last call too, but I, at least for me, it's clear to see how you, you're changing your attitude towards these rejections, which is awesome.

[00:02:27] 

[00:02:27] Yulia: And I think, the thing that always sort of helps me is like, We are trying to also learn in this process of what each of these publications that we're reaching out to, what is it that they actually like? Right. And like, it's, hard to always get that from the first try, you know, when you're first reaching out to them.

It's[00:02:44] Yulia: So that's why it's like, that's why I always talk about long term process building relationships. Right. Because yeah, like. it's all about finding that sweet spot of what they like to publish and what you have to offer and finding a way to angle it in a way that makes sense for them. And it's always going to be a process.

[00:03:04] Yulia: And key thing here is not to stop with that particular publication, especially if you want to, if you really want to get placed in. You know, uh, for example, right now, I'm going through this process with Atlas Obscura, which I haven't been published there before. I've pitched them a couple of times and never, always got a rejection too.

[00:03:22] But, but again, like if you see this ad. You know, here's this entity that is producing some sort of stories and I want to get in there. I need to learn what kind of stories they want to publish. And sometimes when I'm just sitting in my house and even, okay, I'm looking at their guidelines, but without that feedback from them, it's still hard to know what is it that actually intrigues them.

[00:03:44] Right. So that's where we're pitching them and actually going through this process again. And again, helps you. Keep coming up with stories that with each try, they're going to have better and better fit with what they have. You know, that's sort of how I look at it. It's like this longer term, process.

[00:03:59] So long story short, I pitched Atlas Obscura several times always got a rejection on stories that I thought would fit them very well. You know, finally I pitched them again. This time. I got a maybe and they were considering, and considering, considering finally they came back. They're like, well, we're not sure about this, but how about this other angle?

[00:04:18] So they're basically giving me more information to come up with something that might work for them. You see, and on my own, I would probably never have gotten there if I haven't continued reaching out, continue pitching to them and getting that feedback from them. So now I'm sort of, you know, there's a different angle that I'm working on at a pitch and hopefully this time it will get accepted, but they're giving me all this feedback and all this information,

[00:04:40] does that make. 

[00:04:41] Sam: Yeah. So in that case, 

[00:04:42] Vanessa: are you re-pitching fresh or are you just replying to that 

[00:04:46] Yulia: feed? Well, I'm definitely replying to the feedback. Yeah. So whatever I pitched them, there was something in there that intrigued them, but the way I presented it, it wasn't quite what they looking for, but they're giving me feedback now.

[00:04:58] Well, Not sure about this, but how about this angle? Do you think that's something that, you can create a story around. so now I'm re pitching that same idea in a different angle. and hopefully this, the assignment will work, but yeah, again, like it's a process, you know? and if I would just said, you know, that first time that they rejected me, I would have said, you know what, like, well, yeah, I'm just going to take it and never approach them again.

[00:05:20] 

[00:05:20] Yulia: No. Right. We have to keep. And that's where that mindset is important. Because again, it's like, well, they have something that they want to publish. You have something you want to offer. How do we find that sweet spot between us, 

[00:05:31] Sam: am working through. Letting go of perfectionism in a way too. And I've had these like little examples come up this week where I've been able to like, kind of put that in practice. I said last week I was like doing the, I have like a few pieces I was writing for, um, like the local news thing that I write for, in a travel app.

[00:05:49] And those are things like normally, like anything I write, I want to be like hardcore the best, like this needs to be good, but, like the St Pete rising one last one. I was like in Georgia flying. I wasn't going to sit in the hotel room for four hours trying to make it perfect. So that was something where like I wrote what I needed to write.

[00:06:07] I sent it off to them and that was it. And it's published. And like, it's the same difference as if I spent. You know, I could have spent all day on it and it's like, it's fine. It's 

[00:06:18] Yulia: better than perfect. Yes. 

[00:06:19] Sam: Especially with pitches. Cause it's like, oh, it's good. I really like in like observing the WhatsApp group of everyone sharing just their, rejections and successes with the flow.

[00:06:29] For me, it's like, I'm not afraid of the rejection, but it's hard to almost get that wheel to start turning like that. Push of just, making it become part of a routine. Cause I feel like the, um, So, for example, when I did like pitch training with a journalist a year ago, I wrote a pitch with her and she was like, this is really good.

[00:06:46] You should send this out. This is awesome. And I spent so much time on it that it became almost like my baby. And then I just like never sent it anywhere. And that's what I don't want to do with the Georgia thing. But it's, it's that balance of like, how can I. Really do a good job on it, but then not spend so much time on each one that I become paralyzed and don't send it anywhere.

[00:07:08] Or sometimes I feel like I spend so much time on this. I need to send it to like, I don't know, like a recognizable named thing or something as opposed to a random one. And at the end of the day, like I need to do a mix of both and just kind of get started. I guess just like from practical, like action steps though.

[00:07:24]  first of all, and I sounds like you're already doing that.

[00:07:28] Yulia: You need to let go, let him go. Let go of all the expectations. Let go of your imagination of, where those stories could end up right now, you're sitting on a wealth of amazing ideas. Right. And you need to start getting them out into the world. what I hear from you is that you have attachment to your ideas and you know, where you talked about the page that you worked on it for so long, it became your baby.

[00:07:53] And you know, almost like you don't want to. The baby into the world. We need to practice with you how to let go of all of that. And again, sounds like you're already starting to do that and starting to let go of that perfectionism because, that's key. 

[00:08:06] Sam: I want to say Julia, cause maybe you have advice on this.

[00:08:09] I don't have any, like, I don't need a pitch just up here in a certain kind of publication. I don't care. I'll just be thrilled to see something published. It's more a balance of, I feel like I've been in this exact spot for years. Like I know that I can publish myself and like small local news things.

[00:08:28] I know that I write for different, like, but I never, I'm always like afraid to take a bigger leap with it. And it's not like I expect that will happen instantly, but for me, it's a balance of getting myself out there, but also. Pushing myself out of my comfort zone a little bit with it.

[00:08:44] So I'm growing, in not just, um, saying, okay, here I have these three things that I knew I could write anyways. I'm looking at all these ideas and I'm thinking, I just put them out there, like to anything, to just get some basic hits and say I did it, or do I use this?

[00:09:00] Because I had such an awesome experience and I have so many. Different and unique kinds of ideas. Do I use them to try to like, just pull off the bandaid and say, okay, now I pitched something that made me was out of my 

[00:09:11] comfort 

[00:09:11] Yulia: zone. 

[00:09:12] Yeah. So, and the answer to that is the, the latter, for sure. You have to be strategic with sort of how and where you want to place these.

[00:09:20]Yulia: Uh, so what I would do if I were you right now, first of all, I would lay it all out. Like you're saying, you know, literally record all of these ideas. See which ones you, you are the most excited about yourself because those are going to be your best pitches. Right. And then what I would do is, and you asked me earlier, should I pitch these sort of big feature stories?

[00:09:40] Or should I pitch. Smaller ones, actually, it's all the above for sure. And you want to use all of your ideas that you have, but what I would do is again, I would lay it out and I would start mapping thinking, okay, this idea that I have here on this woman, entrepreneur, where's the best fit for that.

[00:09:55] This idea here on, I don't know, the wineries or whatever, what's the best fit for that. What's the fit for that. And you almost lay out all your ideas. Okay. I will, I will pitch this one here. I will pitch this one here. And then you start, you know, one by one, you start going through the list and you start pitching them.

[00:10:12] and, that's exactly how I would do it. And yes, you have to be sort of very organized in that way, because otherwise it can get, confusing and messy, but that's, that was doing layout next to it. Layout potential best fit publication for each one of them. And then start approaching them one by one.

[00:10:28] With methodically 

[00:10:30] Yulia: Thanks again for listening to our bonus episode today, I hope you found ideas with discussed here relevant and inspiring. If you're looking for support opportunities and community in the trouble media space, consider joining us in the circle. Enrollment in the circle is currently closed as we're getting ready for a one-year anniversary this October.

[00:10:52] If you want to know, when we opened the doors back up, visit geniuswomxn.co/circlewaitlist. To get on the list. Thanks again for listening and stay tuned for another bonus episode coming your way next Monday.