S9 E98: Why Jordan Is Yulia's Favorite Place

Get the show’s transcript

[00:00:00] YD: Welcome back to our show, everyone. I am your host, Yulia Denisyuk, an award winning travel photographer, writer, storyteller, community builder, podcaster, and entrepreneur working with publications like National Geographic, the New York Times, and more, traveling to interesting places around the world like Botswana and the Arctic Circle, and producing stories that I'm really excited about.

 Today's episode is so special to me for two reasons. First, on this episode, the first one in the season, we get to talk about Jordan. If you know me, you know that I love this country and I'll take any opportunity to talk about it in depth. 

You'll hear the origin story of my relationship with Jordan. It's something I've actually never shared publicly before, so you get to be the first one hearing it today.

 We'll also talk about some of my favorite places in Jordan, what people get wrong about this destination, and what should first time travelers to Jordan see and experience there. 

The second reason I'm excited about this particular episode is because for the first time ever, you get to hear the voice of our lovely podcast producer Noelia Sanchez, who came on this episode to talk about Jordan with me.

 Noelia has been working behind the scenes of this show for, oh my goodness, three years now, and we always have such wonderful conversations off air. So today you get to hear Noelia and I on air, and I'm really excited about it. Go to audiostorytellers. com to learn more about Noelia's work, and we'll be sure to add this and every other link we mention on this episode to our show notes too.

 This episode and the entire season of the show, this fall, is brought to you by Visit Jordan. Be sure to visit myjordanjourney. com to learn more about Jordan. That's myjordanjourney. com. Alright, now let's get started with our conversation with Noelia about why Jordan is so special for me.

[00:02:21] NS: Here we are!

[00:02:23] YD: Here we are and I'm sitting in my closet right now because I just moved and I'm using that old trick of making the sound better by sitting in a small room filled with clothes, 

[00:02:35] NS: yes, absolutely. That's the hack. That's the audio hack we tell everybody is to sit in the closet. So this is great.

[00:02:41] YD: Hopefully it works. Yeah. And I'm just so excited to, to talk to you and to bring you on the podcast. Everyone, this is our magician, Noelia, who is responsible for all the production of the podcast that you guys have been listening for all this time. And what you also don't know is that Noelia is just an amazing human.

[00:03:03] NS: And. Every time we get together and talk, we have such great conversations. So I'm just so excited that today we get to do this on the pod, on the podcast as well, not only off the podcast, Yes, thank you so much, Yulia, for having me on. I am so used to being behind the scenes. So when I get to step in front of the microphone or onto a stage with folks, it feels so different. But it also gets me really excited because I'm getting to do something that's outside of my norm. So this is really cool to get to be here today.

[00:03:30] YD: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm so happy that you're here too. And by the way, you guys, we're going to link, to Noelia's company in the show notes. So if you, if anybody listening to this ever needs an amazing podcast producer, marketing person, just an awesome partner, definitely check it out because I've been working with Noelia, gosh, how old, how long now, two years,

[00:03:54] NS: Yeah, a couple of years. I think we're coming up on our third year already. I was thinking about that recently too. And gosh, how time flies, right? this journey that we're on together doing the podcast show, it's just been so exciting to see the evolution of it. And, I, some of that stuff we're going to get to talk about today, so it's really awesome.

[00:04:11] YD: Absolutely. Yeah. So amazing. we're here today because, we wanted to, I, I wanted to talk about Jordan because any opportunity I have to take, to talk about Jordan, I'll take it because I love it so much. And we just thought, wouldn't it be fun if we actually, instead of me talking into the microphone by myself, that we actually have a conversation with Noelia about Jordan and about why, why it's so special for me.

have you been to Jordan yourself, Noelia?

[00:04:42] NS: I haven't. And I'm so curious about it too. You share all these wonderful stories about it and you have all these wonderful photos that you've taken on your journeys there. And it's always sparked a little bit of curiosity for me to understand more. So I'm super excited to get to talk to you about it and hear what sparked your like passion and love for it.

So this is really cool. Yeah. The special note is that we're getting to travel to Jordan this season. So tell me more about what this is all about.

[00:05:10] YD: Yeah. So we are indeed traveling to Jordan through this podcast and through this season, all season long, because we've partnered with Visit Jordan, the tourism board for the destination for the country of Jordan, and we are sharing stories from Jordan, not only from Jordan. You're going to hear some other stories this season as well, but we're going to share a few stories from Jordan,one, one I'm very excited about is going to be an interview with a friend of mine who is a Bedouin man who lives in the desert of Wadi Rum.

And, if you guys have known me just even a little bit, because I talk about it so often that I just love Wadi Rum. It's probably one of my favorite places on earth. So we're going to talk more about why that is and what kind of a place it is. We're going to have some other stories on the podcast.

So yeah, lots of exciting, exciting stories coming your way.

I just love Jordan. I love this country. I've been coming there since. 2017,multiple times a year for multiple weeks or months at a time sometimes.

So I just, I just, I can talk about it

forever. So, 

[00:06:15] NS: Oh, you could tell already that there's such a passion that you have for visiting and all the things that you've experienced there. I'm so curious about what is it that sparked Jordan for you in the first place? Like why are we going to Jordan now?

[00:06:28] YD: yes. Why? So it's funny actually, because the very first, I remember the very first time I remember, or like I, I learned what Jordan was, it was because of Petra. So Petra is probably Jordan's most famous, let's say product, destination product. Petra is a UNESCO world heritage site. It's an ancient capital of a civilization called the Nabateans.

The Nabataeans were the civilization that was there before the Romans. They were very advanced. They had their own religion. They had their own organization. They had, they were extremely proficient traders. They facilitated the trade of goods. the,the ancient spice caravans, the silk trade, all of that was going through the Nabateans and they were right on that silk trade route, between Africa and Asia.

So Petra was their capital. And Petra today is the site where you can go in and you can see,these amazing buildings that they carved out of stone, these, these Nabateans, and it's a huge site. It's like you can spend a whole day or even several days in that site.

So the first time I ever learned about Jordan was because Instagram, actually, of course, like how. How else do we find things? now it's TikTok, honestly, it's not Instagram anymore. but yeah, it was, I think maybe 2013 or 14 and I saw an image of Petra on Instagram and I was like, Oh my God, what is this place?

I want to know more, And ever since then, I just had this idea that I really want to come to Jordan and see Petra, which I think is a journey that most people that know about Jordan take. They literally see Petra and they're like, Oh my God, what is the site? I want to go there.

[00:08:08] NS: Gosh, see, I'm such a novice traveler myself that I, you're mentioning these places. And I feel like I've heard the words and heard like some of it, but never realizing that it's in Jordan or that There's multiple sites like this in one place. it's just fascinating to me that you can have this whole trip and see all these amazing things that you just described.

tell me more about some of the places that you think that someone shouldn't miss when they go to Jordan.

[00:08:32] YD: I guess we should start with locating a little bit where Jordan

[00:08:35] NS: Yes, that, that's very helpful for someone like me who just really has no clue, but so curious and really wanting to understand more, uh, to be able to, bake, make informed decisions and think about what are the best things to see and use my time wisely instead of just landing wherever Instagram takes me.

[00:08:53] YD: yeah, so Jordan is located in the Middle East region, and it has very interesting neighbors, I would say, it's neighbor to the north is, to the north and east is Iraq and Syria, it's neighbor to the west is Israel Palestine, its neighbor to the south is Egypt, and its neighbor to the southeast is Saudi Arabia.

so very interesting geographically and geopolitically, a very interesting place. And Jordan for centuries has been a safe haven for refugees and for people who are looking for a safe place, and, even today, Jordan has, I believe, I'm going to get the facts wrong, but it's either the first or the second, or the biggest or the second biggest population of Palestinian refugees.

In the world, because when, when the conflict of the, if you guys know anything about history in the forties and fifties, when there was a conflict, I'm not going to get into it a lot, on the show, but a lot of Palestinians had to flee their lands. And so they settled in Jordan. And so today Jordan is this place of a lot of Palestinians, a lot of Bedouins, the Arabian Bedouins, a lot of people from all over.

Over the region, there's a lot of Syrians, Iraqis, Circassians, which are, by the way, Circassians are from, former Russian Empire. they flew persecution from the Russian Empire in the 18 1900s, and they came to this part of the world, that is something that people don't know a lot about Jordan, is that it's such a...

[00:10:25] NS: Hot pot,of people and of cultures. And it's so fascinating and so interesting, I had no idea how diverse it was culturally, like I think I had a sense of geographically like where it is, but not really understanding how it all is mixing together. That's really fascinating. But thanks for sharing that.

[00:10:43] YD: Yeah, it's because at the end of the day, or it's my conviction, actually, it's my strong belief. And that's what my work is really built upon is that people is what makes travel so special. of course, landscapes, of course, we want to see nature, of course, all of that. But for me personally, I travel for the people.

I love connecting with people. I think people make it such a powerful experience connecting with other people, And yeah, that's, I think, one of the reasons why Jordan keeps, drawing me back again and again is because of the people that live there. I'm just so fascinated by all the stories and all the heritages and all the, mixes and mashes of people in Jordan that is, it's really interesting for me.

I think it's the same for me too. Like if I think about the places that I've enjoyed visiting the most, it's the ones where I've felt welcomed, where I felt like I could walk in and be myself and not feel, you know, self conscious about the, My unfortunate, sometimes American behavior.

[00:11:39] NS: I wonder what is it like for an American traveling to Jordan for the first time?

[00:11:43] YD: Oh my God, that question is the whole reason why I actually started bringing people to Jordan. So some of you guys know that I do group trips sometimes and for several years now I've been doing group trips to Jordan and that's not something that I even ever planned on doing, but it was because of my own experience that when I came to Jordan again, like that first trip that I took, which was for work, by the way, it was a work trip.

I was there to take photographs of the country. what a hard life, what a 

[00:12:13] NS: right. Yeah.

[00:12:14] YD: and,I. I came there in 2017, I think it was a 10 day trip. I knew nothing about the country besides Petra, again, like most, travelers that are going to come there.

And I had an incredible time, Noelia, I fell in love immediately again with the people, with the landscapes, which by the way are extremely diverse in a very small space, which is also very cool. Like you can drive from the top to the bottom of Jordan in about eight hours. It's very compact country, but in that time you're gonna see mediterranean forests in the north, you're gonna see olive groves, you're gonna see the lowest point on earth, the Dead Sea, which is just incredible.

You're gonna see the deserts, you're gonna see canyons, You're gonna see huge mountains like, all kinds of different landscapes.

So I was there I fell in love with the country with the people with the food and then I started posting about it on Instagram that you know This is what I'm doing right now.

And the most amount of questions that I got was, Oh my God, how are you traveling there? How are you traveling there alone? Is it, isn't it dangerous? Isn't there war? Isn't there a conflict? Isn't there terrorists? Like all these questions. And it wasn't that long ago. Like it was 2017, not 1967. I don't know.

So that shocked me, honestly, because when people heard that I'm traveling in the Middle East, that's immediately what they were asking me. Isn't it dangerous to travel there?

[00:13:41] NS: I can imagine that, right? I can see why that happens with folks who, are probably similar to me, we're just naive and traveling and not really understanding geography and the world. And so you hear of these regions and you're, you don't. understand the nuance of the differences of the nations and the countries.

And,like you shared with us earlier,the neighboring countries, people have these preconceived notions of what that means. and so then they label it a certain way. and so I'm so grateful and happy that we're doing this season because it gives us a chance to break some of that down.

Right.

[00:14:14] YD: Absolutely. And that's exactly it. it's all about, because, people are busy with their own lives. So when they see headlines, that's all they see. They don't really dig deeper for the most part. And unfortunately the Middle East has been ridden with really bad headlines for a long time now.

I think the situation is changing now with Jordan because actually in the past, I would say five years, the country has done so much to put itself on the map of tourism. And I don't think people are asking those questions now so much about Jordan. They're more aware of what the country is and what it has to offer.

But yeah, back in 2017, that's, that was the number one question I got. I got so many questions like that. Like how come you're traveling there by yourself? Aren't you scared? and for me, it just didn't compute because my experience there was incredible. Like I was I was scared of nothing, it was amazing.

but yeah, unfortunately, even the neighboring countries too, for example, a friend of mine, her Instagram handle is lost with purpose. We're going to link to it. We actually interviewed her on the podcast too. Her name is Alex Reynolds. She recently did a solo motorcycle ride trip through Iraq.

[00:15:24] NS: Amazing. 

[00:15:25] YD: and she had an amazing experience.

[00:15:28] NS: I could just imagine.

[00:15:29] YD: you guys can check it out on Instagram. She documented it very well. And I'm not saying that there isn't some challenges in some of these countries. Of course, we all know like Syria is going through a very rough time. Iraq in some ways is also going through a rough time.

[00:15:44] NS: I'm not trying to say that, no, that's not, doesn't exist, but what I'm really advocating for in any country, in any destination you go to is nuance, which is the word you brought up earlier. And I just loved it, Noelia, because that's exactly it. Nuance is what we need a lot of time, instead of making these like broad generalizations and statements about the whole region or a whole people. Absolutely. Absolutely. and especially with travel, right? Like we have such limited understanding of often the places that we're going to go visit. And it's important for us to keep that in mind, that nuance, that difference. I live in San Francisco and right now with San Francisco is like a hot topic in the headlines.

And so often I'm getting these. questions, similar to what you were hearing about that of

[00:16:26] YD: wow.

[00:16:27] NS: how do you live there? is it as terrible as they say on TV? And I usually just respond with everything is true. That stuff does happen. I just shared with you, my car got broken into yesterday, yes, and there's all these wonderful, amazing things that I love about the city.

And that's why I choose to live here.

[00:16:46] YD: absolutely. 

Ah, yes. And that's holding both of those things and being able to accept both, that's very important. 

[00:16:55] NS: yes. there's just so many amazing things that it sounds like Jordan has to share with us. And is there one particular thing that you just love the most or what is it that keeps drawing you back in?

[00:17:06] YD: Is this time for a confession or no?

[00:17:08] NS: I would love to hear the confession, the real honest story.

[00:17:12] YD: Okay. The real honest story. Guess, guess, what is at the root of someone's intimate and strong relationship with a country?

[00:17:21] NS: Oh, goodness. Ah, jeez. Ah, everything whittles down to love for me, so is it a love that is bringing you back home? Oh, what is it? What is it? Food? Food, maybe? Music? Ah, which one? Which one?

[00:17:34] YD: Noelia, you got it. You got it. Isn't there always a story about a boy?

[00:17:38] NS: The one true love that I met on my travels, yes.

[00:17:42] YD: so it started with a boy. The boy and I are no longer together. it didn't work out, unfortunately. But that's how it started for me. I came there for work. I met a boy, and by the way, I never shared this story publicly before, so I guess you guys are the first ones.

 yeah, so I fell in love in Jordan. And it was beautiful. And I kept coming back because of that, I kept coming back and I spent months there and really got to know the country in an intimate way.

And that's something that I think about a lot, as a travel journalist, because as travel journalists, we uh, jump in to a destination for a limited amount of time. And then we jump out. And we can maybe form some opinions about what that experience was, but we can never go as deep as someone who is staying there for weeks or months at a time.

And so I'm actually very aware of that when I write stories that like, understanding that I do it from a very limited perspective of what I experienced, you know. but in Jordan, I was fortunate that I was able to really go deep and really develop a community, develop friends, relationships. That's how you really get to know the country and its salt and its flavor through these relationships with people. you know.And That's why I am such a fan because I have people there now who I love and who I consider my, very close friends every time I come back now, because, the boy is out of the picture now, like we're not together, but I still come back to Jordan, which I think is a testament actually to my love for the country, because I'm still coming back there because I love it so much.

And I have all these relationships and all these people there that I love.

[00:19:28] NS: Oh, what a great story to share and a great origin for the love affair you have with Jordan that really was sparked by a human, a person, but really shifted to this passion that you have for the place and the people in general. I love that. And, I think that's the way that I like to travel too.

Like I always tell myself, I want to feel like I live there, like with the things that I 

do, even if I go somewhere for just a week at a time, I'm always looking for opportunities. to blend in as much as I can by experiencing what the everyday person does. And, oh, I just love that you shared that because there's this interesting thing that happens when you're, when you let your emotions connect or you're aware of the feelings that something generates, right?

Like you're not only seeing things, but you're feeling what it feels like to be there. I don't know. that's what sparked for me when you shared that it's like that emotion that came from. being there. Oh, so great. 

[00:20:21] YD: one of the things I really love now when I come back to Jordan is usually, I rent a place in, Amman, which is a capital of Jordan. I rent a place in the neighborhood of Weibdeh. Uh, Weibdeh is one of the, hilly, so Amman was, formed on the hills, like a lot of ancient cities.

if you think about Rome, if you think about Istanbul, these are all the cities that were formed on the hills, for whatever reason, our ancient civilizations, they really liked, to be able to go up, and see their enemies from the top of the hill. So Amman is like that too. It's a very hilly city and I love that about it as well. that everywhere you go, you see this hills and houses and mosques everywhere. It's just really beautiful. 

 But one of the most favorite things that I do is I rent a. an apartment in the neighborhood of Weibdeh. It's a hip, hipster neighborhood. it has a lot of coffee shops, art galleries, which I love, by the way. I absolutely love Middle Eastern art.

And, my favorite thing to do once I'm settled in the apartment is to go outside in the morning. The jasmine is blooming if it's springtime and that scent of jasmine is everywhere on the street.

[00:21:31] NS: Wow.

[00:21:32] YD: And I go to this one shop that's nearby the apartment that I rent, and I get fresh sheep's yogurt

[00:21:39] NS: Amazing. Wow.

[00:21:41] YD: with honey.

[00:21:42] NS: Wow.

[00:21:43] YD: let me tell you, Noelia, if you haven't tried fresh Jordanian sheep's yogurt with honey,

[00:21:50] NS: It

[00:21:51] YD: You haven't lived on this earth.

[00:21:53] NS: It sounds too special. Like I just Can't, I can't even imagine, right? Like, uh, Oh, those are my favorite kinds of things to experience that you can only like, it's the only there kind of thing, right? Like you're never going to get that experience anywhere else. Oh, 

amazing. 

[00:22:08] YD: I think that, first of all, I'm obsessed with yogurt and like dairy products in general, and I love honey. And that was one of the things that I did on that first trip in Jordan. We stopped by a side of the road in Karak, which is another city, a little bit South of Amman. Or maybe it was Jerash, actually, I don't remember now.

But anyway, it was outside of the capital. We stopped by the side of the road and we got fresh sheep's yogurt. And I just never had anything so flavorful in my life, and that's actually something that is still happening in Jordan, although by the way, it's also changing because global globalization and globalized, like large scale industrial agriculture, like all these trends that are happening everywhere, they're also happening in Jordan, but it's still possible there to find a butcher with fresh,fresh, flavorful meat, or to find a shop that sells fresh yogurt or fresh eggs, or everything that tastes so flavorful and so amazing. And I really love that about the food in Jordan because, here in the States, it's harder and harder to find that 

[00:23:12] NS: it's so true. And that little, that, that piece of something that we, just take for granted sometimes that you could just, go and get something at the store. And we think that the convenience of it is what is the value, but it's actually the detriment, right? Like maybe if it was a little harder for us to get our food, we'd have more fresh food.

 there's a couple of things that I'm curious about you. You mentioned a few cities and I love hearing you mention the words because I feel like it sounds so foreign to me, the language. tell me about how it is communicating. I'm always curious about what it's like to hear different languages and how you interact with the locals.

[00:23:48] YD: Yeah, so people speak very good English in Jordan for the most part, these days a lot of people, especially if you go to places like Petra or like Wadi Rum, which is the desert in the south. That is my favorite place. they're all built around tourism, like tourism is the number one industry there, in those sites.

And so naturally people are going to speak English and that's not going to be a problem. I always try to pick up at least a few words. of the language that, of the place that I go to, you know, and that happened with me in Arabic too. I started speaking Arabic. I have actually started learning Arabic, while I was in Jordan.

And so now, every time I come back, I'm communicating in like broken English, Arabic, I would say, because my Arabic is not that strong, but it's, it's little by little getting better. 

[00:24:35] NS: And I imagine they appreciate when you try, even you just having a few words in the language, I'm sure they, they recognize it and

[00:24:42] YD: absolutely. And in fact, sometimes it can be very advantageous to you because, when I call a local taxi, although I now use the, the app called Kareem, which is like a Middle Eastern version of Uber or Lyft, it's called Kareem, double E, but sometimes when you take a local cab instead, if you start speaking to them in Arabic, they will lower the rate.

They would literally half the rate, you know, instead of paying two dinars, you'll pay one dinar or 

less for your ride. 

Yeah. Yeah. So it definitely does pay off to make the effort to get acclimated to the culture you're in. Absolutely. In fact, I just remembered another, like, a phrase that I often use, because I go to a store or I go to a souk,the bazaar, you know, and get some fresh produce or whatever. They tell me the price and I tell them, And they freak out. They have no idea, they do not see that coming. I say, 'ana last 'ajnabiana.

I am not a foreigner.

And you should see the look on their faces, and they give me a lower price after that.

[00:25:45] NS: Yeah. Yeah. They're like, okay, I better remember this one.

[00:25:48] YD: 'ana last 'ajnabiana. You guys are welcome to use that.

[00:25:52] NS: Love it. I love it. Oh, you've mentioned some amazing places already, Petra and is it Wadam, Wadidam?

[00:25:58] YD: Wadi Ram

[00:26:00] NS: And are there some other ones that you are just, that you love that are your favorite places to visit in Jordan

[00:26:06] YD: So when you hear the word Wadi, Wadi means a valley. Wadi is valley. And so there are several kind of, because Jordan actually sits on the, The Great Rift Valley, or the Great Rift, what is it called, the arch, oh, the geological name. So if also again from history, when Asia and Africa split, there was this huge rift that came through.

and it's called the great rift. It comes from South Africa all the way up to through Africa and all the way up to Asia. And that's on the edges of that rift, ridge or rift, there are mountains, huge mountains that formed because, Things were like, geologically were shaking and going crazy, like millions and millions of years ago.

So Jordan sits on that fault line of separation. And so you will see these huge mountains, raising up and you will see these deep canyons and deep valleys. Like it's very dramatic landscape, and so Wadi is one of those, it's a name for a valley and there's many Wadis or valleys like that in Jordan, Wadi Ram is, translated as the valley of the moon because, it is a landscape that I've, haven't seen in too many places on earth.

And I've been to a lot of places 

although my friends always tease me that it looks like Arizona.

[00:27:21] NS: Wow.

[00:27:21] YD: Shout out to you, Chris, if you're listening and thank you for teasing me always with it, but it doesn't look like Arizona, please. It doesn't. but it looks like this very extraterrestrial landscape.

Imagine a desert of white, red, And yellow sands, three colors of sands, and on top of it, these huge granite mountains, granite and limestone mountains that look almost like the, the hedges of a camel when the camel is sitting down and there's two, the two hedges, or dinosaur peaks, like it looks very sharp and very rugged and Beautiful and just very vast landscape vast, like to imagine the vastness of it is and you're standing right there and you're sleeping under the stars right there.

It's just incredible. It's just such a majestic experience, so that's Wadi Ram, And by the way, also the best, one of the best experiences you can have there. And I had it there one year is to go there in August, which is actually one of the hottest times.

so there isn't that many visitors. There isn't that many tourists in Wadi Rum. It's very slow. It's very quiet because it's extremely hot. But that's when the Perseid meteor shower comes

[00:28:35] NS: Oh, wow.

[00:28:36] YD: And imagine that meteor shower. in that desert, in that landscape. It's just of this

[00:28:42] NS: I imagine you just can't get a better view anywhere. Yeah.

[00:28:45] YD: no, it's incredible.

So that's Wadi Rum. Then there is another, place in Jordan called Wadi Dana, so the Valley of Dana. And Dana is a, nature biosphere reserve. So it's the largest nature preserve in Jordan. And that place is really special too, because it's one of the few places in Jordan where the traditional lifestyle, the traditional Bedouin lifestyle is still being preserved.

So if you remember earlier, we talked about how there's so many different peoples and cultures in Jordan. So Bedouin is one of those cultures. So it's the people who traditionally originally came from the Arabian peninsula up north. And they were nomadic in nature, they moved with their sheep and with their camels, they maybe did some trading as well, but they were itinerant, they moved throughout this region. And so nowadays, they are not nomadic anymore, they're mostly stay in villages, uh, although they do sometimes go into the desert, like for example, my friends who live in Wadi Ram that we're going to have an episode with, they, Also live in a village next to the desert.

But for one or two months a year, they pick up, some stuff and they move into the desert and they stay for two, two months in the desert and they pick up their, they put up their tents and they do it, it's such a part of the lifestyle there. So Wadi Dana is special because that's one of the.

Because again, urbanization, like, all these trends, I don't want to paint a misrepresentative picture of this, place that's stuck in time, that's very romanticized, because it's not, of course, Jordan, like,Like every other place on earth is changing is, is going up and down, let's say, so there's a lot of trends like urbanization that's also happening there.

However, Dana is special because that's where you can still see some of those traditional lifestyles. You can sit with the Bedouin, you can go and, do sheep herding or goat herding with them. And it's, it's very interesting. 

One time I was there. one of the Bedouins, a young guy, you know, Ithink he was maybe 21 or 22.

he was our guide through the mountains, so we went on a hike with him. What really impressed me Noelia, is that he knew every single plant that we were,coming across on the hike. And he knew what to use it for, and how to use it, and this one is for the stomach, and this one is for the headache, and this one is for heartache, and this one is for this, and this one is for that.

That knowledge of the land and of the plants, who has it today?

[00:31:22] NS: Yeah.

[00:31:23] YD: it, we lost it. and it was so cool for me to see it. It's a young boy. He has his phone. He's on his phone. He's on Instagram too. 

[00:31:29] NS: there's this built in kind of,instinct for them to want to connect. To the landscape and their surroundings and such a special place like that, that it just comes natural. that's just what it sounds like for him, it was just a natural part of growing up in life to learn this information and to be,open and sharing about it is just second nature.

it's not a learned thing or a expected thing or, curious thing, it's just because that's the way it is.

[00:31:57] YD: That's exactly it. That's exactly why I think, one of the reasons why I'm really drawn to and fascinated by a Bedouin culture is exactly that point, that they are so connected to their lands in a way that I think a lot of people elsewhere have lost that connection to the land, and my friends in the desert, they say this all the time too, how special the desert is for them, how important the desert is for them, how it's their mother, it's their home, it's their place. And yeah, I think people living in the cities have lost that connection and we lost something important with that when we did, so I'm very drawn. I'm very drawn to that.

[00:32:35] NS: it's so amazing to be able to have places like this to be able to feel that again. And I think it's humans, we just naturally do desire that connection back to Earth and to the planet in different ways. And I'm so grateful that there's still places and spaces where that's just naturally part of.

the existence of everybody who lives there, right? So that, that's awesome. And it's amazing that we have this opportunity to still be able to go back and experience that as silly city dwellers, in these very modernized industrial spaces that, we are in often. so that is just amazing. 

 We're, Exploring Jordan this entire season and, I feel really inspired to want to find a way to make it there myself.

so as a very novice traveler,what would you say what would be your piece of advice to me going to Jordan?

[00:33:24] YD: I would say, first of all, give yourself more time. Don't do only a day trip to Petra, as most people do. Stay for a little bit more time. Stay in the desert of Wadi Rum too, because often times people do like a, either just a day trip to Petra, or... One night in Petra and a day trip to Wadi Rum. It's a really short and fast trip and I really encourage people to stay there for more times because sleeping in the desert is one of the best things you can do for yourself.

It is such an incredible experience sleeping in a desert. However, I have to caveat that you have to know where to stay because one of the things that's happening in Wadi Rum, and I've actually written an article about it for Afar magazine, we'll link to it in the show notes, one of the things that's happening there is, large scale, mass scale tourism, actually.

So a lot of the camps nowadays in Wadi Rum are really not a nice experience. It's a very kind of, again, industrialized, big production, mass, everything.

[00:34:24] NS: Built on convenience rather than true

experience, right? 

[00:34:28] YD: I don't know. It just, it doesn't feel intimate at all.

So I recommend you find a really small camp run by a family or run by friends where it's maybe, only a handful of people that stay there because that's how you're going to be able to really get that one on one time with the Bedouins and really experience the way they live. And, the camp that I always go to is Ram Planet Camp.

And we'll link to it in the show notes too. My friend who's going to be in one of the upcoming episodes, he's, he runs that camp, so we'll talk more about that. So sleep in a desert for sure. 

So yes, of course you, you have to see the sides that you came to Jordan in the first place, like Petra, you know, it's a world heritage site,but I just want to encourage people to give some of the smaller areas, more time and more chance, because that's where you're really going to feel the. I would say the spirit of the country.

For that you need to go to some of the smaller places. You need to go and stay in Amman for sure. People also never stay in Amman.

They just use it as a stopover, fly in and out. But Amman is an incredible city and there's so much happening there in terms of culture, in terms of arts, in terms of restaurants, in terms of events. It's a really dynamic city. and then, some of the smaller places, like I mentioned, for example, in, in the North, there is the town of Ajloun, there's a castle.

Crusaders, by the way, castle.

[00:35:53] NS: Yeah. Wow.

[00:35:54] YD: In Ajloun and you can do hikes there through the olive groves, through the almond trees and have a lunch with farmers, on the countryside, you know, things like that. the Dead Sea, of course, is a very, unique, place that you have to experience as well. And then you also need to, go to places like Karak, for example, which is one of those towns in the middle of the country because in Karak, the best kept secret is that it's the place where you get the most tasty mansaf. Mansaf, which is a national, dish of Jordan. It's this rice dish, with lamb or goat or beef meat. And the special ingredient in mansaf is jameed, which is a dried fermented yogurt.

is a little bit salty, a little bit sour, the sauce is so yummy, and the rumor is that the best mansaf is in Karak, because the best jameed, the best yogurt comes from Karak.

So the point is that you really need to travel with an insider, 

there's just so much and, oh gosh, you mentioned, going to, making sure that you have an insider and I feel like this entire season is going to be our insider

[00:37:06] NS: glimpse into Jordan, which is amazing. I feel like just this short bit of conversation that we've had, I've learned so much and it's gotten me so excited to hear more and getting to hear from your friends that do such amazing things there and getting to hear their experiences and what.

They, know and believe and,experience what Jordan is like from their eyes. So that's just going to be so exciting and yeah, I think of this season as being our insider look to prepare us for when we go on our trip there together.

[00:37:33] YD: Yes. 

That would be,

nothing gives me greater joy than to bring my friends to Jordan. I've already done it several times because my friends know how obsessed I am with it. And I already told them, you, you are not allowed to go there on your own.

[00:37:49] NS: you know what I want to also mention? It's very interesting to think about this idea that, some of these places that we go to or maybe learn about, they're so far away and they're so removed from our day to day. But honestly, when you start traveling the way that I travel, very often for all these assignments and whatever, You start seeing how the world is actually much more connected and impacted by each other than we have ever imagined.

[00:38:21] YD: And I'll just tell you a really short story because I'm actually going to go deeper into the subject in one of the upcoming episodes. So you guys stay tuned. But what I recently learned while I was writing a story about bread making in Jordan, which is an ancient tradition. In fact, the world oldest bread has recently been discovered in Jordan.

So we're going to dig into that in an upcoming episode. However, what I've recently learned is that, Jordan has these ancient wheat grains, that have originated in this area. But today in the country, most of the wheat and most of the bread that's being consumed is not that ancient wheat. It's actually American wheat

 that came to Jordan in the 1960s and 70s, flooded the market, pushed out traditional ancient grain farmers. And for the past 30, 40 years, that's what Jordan has been consuming is this very cheap subsidized American wheat. And it impacted the country in a multitude of different ways 

beyond just wheat.

 So when I learned this recently, I was like, Oh my God, like 

 Because again, we think that, we're here, they're over there.

We're all like in our own separate places, but the world is actually much more connected than that. And what happens here impacts what happens there and vice versa. And I think it's just such a fascinating thing to think about.

[00:39:47] NS: It is. It is. And it's not until you dive into those deeper stories of the individuals and their daily lives that you get to hear about how interconnected we are in so many different ways, right? Like through, through culture, through politics, through food, through all of these details. Moments in history that happen that then impact the way that we continue on together in our individual separate lives, but still united through different moments.

So fascinating. I can't wait to hear that story as well. 

Me too. Me too, Noelia. Thanks for being such an awesome conversation partner. I knew this was going to be fun because again, like you. For you guys who don't know the back the behind the scenes, you know, Noelia and I, we meet regularly for the podcast. We're discussing, episodes and things like that.

[00:40:32] YD: And every time we talk, we just have such a good time together. And so I knew that this will be fun because we already have fun conversations all the time. And I hope that our listeners, you guys have enjoyed it as well. And if you have, please let me know. I'm always asking you to send me either a DM on Instagram or, let me know via a review, by the way, because reviews are also very important for podcasts, so I hope you enjoyed, today's conversation and Noelia, maybe we do, we do a few more of these in, in, in the future as well.

Cause I, I 

[00:41:04] NS: Oh, yes. Uh, and I love hearing about all of your travels and adventures. It gets me inspired to go out there and see more myself. So absolutely. I'd love to be back.

[00:41:13] YD: Oh, amazing. Amazing. And thank you to visit Jordan, the organization for partnering with us for the season. again, it just, to me, it's it doesn't even feel like work because I can talk about Jordan all the time. so I really love it and I look forward to some of our upcoming episodes.

that we mentioned today. So you guys stay tuned, be safe, safe travels to you. And by the way, everyone is invited to come to Jordan with me. I'm going to restart, those trips, hopefully next year. So stay tuned. You know where to find me on Instagram and elsewhere. sounds like we need a trip, a physical trip to Jordan ASAP for sure.

[00:41:50] NS: Yes. Yes. We got to put that in the calendar for

[00:41:53] YD: Yes. 

[00:41:53] NS: Love it.

[00:41:54] YD: Awesome. thank you so much, Noelle. Thank you for your time. And I hope to hear you on the podcast soon.

[00:42:00] NS: Yes. Thank you.

[00:42:01] YD: Thank you so much for listening to our podcast today. If you've been enjoying listening to our show, please take a moment to leave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share this episode on social media. Our lovely theme music this season, Abbad El Shams, is provided by Rawan Roshni, a Palestinian Balkan singer based in Jordan who experiments across genres.

Our partner this season is Visit Jordan. My name is Yulia Denisyuk and I will see you next week. Take care and safe travels.